There are instances whereby Romanis are discriminated, but that doesn't constitute institutionalized

Yulian Kondur, project co-ordinator of the international charity organisation «Romani women’s fund «Chirikli», recounts about challenges the activists had to encountered after the onset of full-scale war, about his civic activity on the international level and about his own way in activism.

– Where were you the day the war started? What plans did you have on the day of the invasion?

– We had a meeting with regional administrations scheduled on the 24th of February. We intended to examine regional plans on Romani strategy. I remember very well as the meetings were postponed indefinitely, and when we finally met, our priorities were entirely different. The first week was the most difficult for me and my family; then, we evacuated to the Western Ukraine. I mean, I got back to Kyiv already after my province was liberated from the invaders.

– Do you think you could tell me more about the foundation’s current activity? How did it change after the invasion?

– Most of our projects are long-term projects, so we then swiftly adapted them to fit the urgent humanitarian needs, specifically the evacuation of citizens from Chernihiv, Kyiv, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk Provinces. By and large, since the outbreak of full-scale war and up till now (the interview is dated December 6th, 2022), we helped evacuate and relocate about fifteen hundred people. Some of them went abroad, others stayed in Ukraine. There were also non-Romani evacuees, for instance representatives of the Greek community.

– As the full-scale war broke out, I reckon many of your colleagues left the country or relocated elsewhere in Ukraine. How challenging was that in terms of adjusting your work processes?

– We then paid our team’s salary two months ahead, so that they could cover their basic needs. Our team members went to different places, such as Moldova or Poland. My family and part of my team went to France. Some people stayed in Kyiv Province and experienced the war firsthand. We kept in touch all the time and continued administering the work of the organisation.

– I know that women address you directly whenever they have any issues. How did the needs of women change after February 24th?

– Let me begin with the fact that we had not been a humanitarian organisation, and neither do we consider ourselves to be a humanitarian organisation today. We mostly deal with advocacy and resolving issues that the Romani women have. I think that the most widespread request for help was the request for firstmost necessities: food packages, hygiene items, diapers—basic needs, I mean. Accommodation and evacuation. Our team tried to keep people informed, give them advice on safe routes, regulations for exiting the country, tracking changes in the procedure of border crossing, consulting people.

– In order to receive information and provide help to people, did you collaborate with local authorities?

– Yes, we did keep in touch with local and national authorities. That was all, of course, «in the manual mode». Whatever information we received, we immediately broadcast it on social networks or relayed it to specific people. For a certain time, we had delays in funding, so in that case we redirected people to other organisations, including ARСA.

– Was there anything related to provision of psychological aid to women?

– Most of our mediators are women so, as they worked within communities, they acted as communicators who gave not only logistical advice but also could be good listeners. People who addressed us then thanked us for the constant feeling of being needed and for the support from the community.

– The Chirikli NGO was founded over twenty years ago. Can we now claim that, within this period of time, the Romani society has changed substantially, as far as women’s rights are concerned. If so, which specific changes can we detect?

– I reckon that the most important change has happened in terms of female leadership. My mother and my sister were the ‘founding mothers’ of this NGO and they were struggling to gain standing in the community, in the conservative Romani advocacy movement. As of 2004, not that many organisations were involved in human rights advocacy. Then, the civic movement had a more classic, post-Soviet format. If focused on culture and self-identification. We, on the other hand, contributed with the gender component, with female activism. This helped us establish links with international organisations which helped open access to resources for subsequent development. Little by little, this work brought fruit. In 2011, we started building up a network of Romani mediators. As of that moment, these were women who wanted to be leaders in their communities. We can feel the results of this work even today, as we now have young girls who can express their opinions freely—opinions that are not always conservative, like it was some twenty years ago. To a certain extent, this is also a certain recognition of special needs of Romani women on a global arena.

In 2016, Chirikli gave recommendations to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women. These recommendations were put together on the basis of the shadow report on Ukraine fulfilling its obligations. A number of recommendations were handed over to Ukraine, and this boosted the authorities to focus more on politics, on the issues of Romani girls and women.

– Has your NGO been involved in the development of the new Romani strategy?

– Yes, we have been working on it. As the first cycle was ending, we were already closely collaborating with the Parliamentary Committee on Human Rights. Together, we addressed the Council of Europe and to UN Women. These two organisations played a very important role in prioritising gender issues and gender-sensitive evaluation.

– Prioritising gender issues within the Romani community or outside, in the broader society?

– We teamed up with three other NGOs to conduct an assessment of efficiency of implementation of the previous Strategy. Together, we devised a large document containing specific recommendations for a new strategy. That is exactly how it is entitled: «Gender-Sensitive Assessment of Fulfilment of the Romani Strategy». Soon, a new structure came into existence: the State Service for Ethnic Policy. We established a dialogue with them, albeit not all recommendations have been considered. By the end of 2019, we realised that the Strategy was going to expire, but then the pandemic started, followed by the full-scale war, and our priorities changed, particularly as far as certain substantial provisions were concerned.

– You are a man involved in the realm of women’s rights advocacy. Have you ever felt there are some issues which you find easier or more difficult to face than women?

– It is hard to say indeed. Chirikli NGO was founded by my mother and sister and they worked hard to make it respectable. I reckon it was easier for me because a structured system was already in place. Although I think that sensitivity towards Romani needs and the situation of Romani women was something I had in me since early childhood. I grew up in a corresponding environment; I saw and understood the problems that there were, and I had a chance to observe and compare the situation in Ukraine and abroad. This helped me shape a position of my own. I endorse the fact that a person should have a choice. A person may be a conservative or a progressive. In any case, this is a matter of choice, a choice of values. The ability to choose is the main thing for both men and women.

– What, in your opinion, is the current situation with the Romani human rights advocacy movement? What other challenges does it have to face? Which problems are the most global ones, as far as women’s human rights advocacy of today is concerned?

– As of the present time, the most important issue is the safety of Romani women—safety both in the public space and in the political space. War impacts the capacities of people. Any new challenges notwithstanding, we have to continue supporting and stressing how important it is for the Romani women to participate in different processes. I feel a threat in terms of that space they enjoy today might shrink in the future. Today, a good example in general is the participation of women in the defence of the country as members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And, of course, as far as women are concerned, there is another pressing issue: that of violence.

– Domestic violence?

– Violence in a number of forms: domestic, economic, sexual, verbal, psychological. I think that this phenomenon of gender-based violence is starting to get more acute. Recent studies have pointed to the fact that women started facing more violence during COVID, as they were confined to limited spaces. Today, that might happen in bomb shelters. Another threat is human trafficking. It is important for women to know where and whom they can address in such cases and what would the algorithm of their actions be. We try to react to such things. Here, the key persons we focus on are Romani mediators.

– You have mentioned foreign organisations. How did the interaction with Ukrainian and European organisations change after the outbreak of war? What became more complicated, what became easier? Might it be the case that, given the fact that conditions in Ukraine are harsher today, European partners react better to your requests?

– The Romani human rights advocacy movement has mobilised to provide help to Ukrainian Romanis. The help was in the form of fund-raising campaigns and new programmes which we founded jointly with our partners. Case in point: Finland, the Diaconi Institute in Helsinki, or the ERGO, a Network of Romani Organisations in Europe. The solidarity which we have seen—and which we see today, too—is the primary marker testifying to the fact that Romanis in Ukraine do indeed enjoy support. That, as a matter of fact, is our actual job: to bring information about the needs our people have, on a number of levels.

– How about the Ukrainian authorities? Romanis were in dire straits even before the war, and their situation has deteriorated after February 24th. Did the Ukrainian authorities start paying more attention on Romanis after the outbreak of the full-scale war?

– Today, we can see that Romani participation in the defence against military aggression of Russia is something the authorities like to highlight and popularise. In the long-term perspective, this may positively change the attitude towards the Romani community. I think that, as far as resolution of issues is concerned, we need to become more autonomous. That said, I observe that the authorities, too, try to prevent any violation of the rights of Romanis. There are, of course, instances of discrimination, and these are not isolated cases, but it would be an exaggeration to talk about some ‘institutional racism’. On the other hand, the implementation of the Romani Strategy is currently ‘on standby’. And that reflects negatively on the civil and political participation of minorities.

– You have mentioned helping women move abroad. What kind of difficulties did they face there, in other countries? Were you then handing over the co-ordination to your overseas partners?

– That is exactly how it was. We got in touch with Romani activists in the neighbouring countries and made sure that these women were met, made sure someone helped with translation, and made sure that the basic needs of those women were satisfied. Not all issues were resolved on the spot but people became aware of the fact that there was someone waiting for them, someone ready to assist. Such partners were most active in Poland, Romania, and Moldova.

– What does the fund plan for the year 2023?

– Today, we have a lot of things planned to support those people who stayed in Ukraine. We shall try to attract new activists—young boys and girls that will bring benefit to the community, shedding light onto the needs and challenges they face. The important thing for us is also to enhance the administrative capacities of other organisations that have stayed back in Ukraine, including our NGO. The number of requests does not decrease; it is the dynamics and the needs that change, as the conditions inside the country change.