Roza Tapanova: «The task of our institutions is to work with senses»

Roza Tapanova, Director of Babyn Yar National Historical and Cultural Memorial, speaks on how important it is to preserve the memory in the times of war, on her collaboration with public institutions and with the younger generation of Ukrainians, and also on how important it is to hear the voice of Ukraine’s ethnic minorities—which is one of the key factors impacting the westernisation of the Ukrainian society. During one of the art events which ARCA Youth Agency for Roma Culture Advocacy organised in Berlin, Roza Tapanova spoke on the synergy of collaboration, memorialisation of memory, and work in the archives.

«Not only did they manage to survive but also to save others. This shows how strong our spirit is. A person faces choices every day»

— As our country goes through complicated historical events, as Russians commit crimes during the full-scale war, what do you think, Roza, do these events make us rethink the past more?

— Today, we have a lot of empathy, questions, and looking for answers, using the historical experience at hand. We see how people delve into history. How many enquiries people have, as they want to read books by, say, Timothy Snyder or Serhii Plokhii. Because they get an understanding of the fact that history once taught does not reflect the truth in fact, as it had been imposed upon us by Russia’s colonisation policy. Those were the imperial narratives that gave birth to narratives of their own. Today, this rethinking is most important, hence it is most important to know the places where the most horrendous crimes of the past century took place. In the past three years of the full-scale war, we have seen an increase of visitors to Babyn Yar. They study history, they are curious about new exhibitions, they attend discussions. For us, this is a constant search for new challenges, as we contemplate on what else can we do in order to enable the proper understanding of historical knowledge.

Anatolii Podolskyi, historian and Director of Ukrainian Holocaust History Centre, who has been collaborating with us for many years now, tells stories of, say, teachers from Mariupol city who, during the Russian occupation, were able to save themselves all due to the fact that they knew how people behaved in the Second World War. Basic knowledge of history turned out to be of utmost importance to them today. Or, say, stories of the Righteous Among Nations from Ukraine. In 2024, we opened an Alley of the Righteous Ones of Ukraine, as we wrote down the story of each and every one of these people.  Young people attend our events, read, and are genuinely fascinated by the fact that, in times so difficult, these people were able not only to survive but save others, too. This shows how strong our spirit is. A person faces choices every day.

Photo: Roza Tapanova (published on social networks)

«Any institution should be proactive in finding the funding and amplifying the voice of others»

— Take public institutions: usually, you feel some rudimentary elements there, like ‘back in the USSR’. Babyn Yar Memorial is a slightly different case which, in my opinion, quite decently articulates the concept of modern art and the concept of rethinking of history. What kind of tools do you commonly use for public relations?

— State-operated institutions have reconsidered many things since our war broke out. Take, for instance, the National Museum of History of Ukraine in the Second World War—which has now become a museum space reconsidering the experience of Ukrainians in the modern war. Or take the Ukrainian House, or the National Museum of Holodomor Genocide. These institutions reexamine history today. The crucial thing is to understand the fact that the Ministry of Culture does not shape your strategy; you should instead be an active participant and to correspond to the essence of what your mission is as an institution. Our mistrust for state institutions was due to the fact that there was no understanding of what their mission was, of what was it that they were supposed to be preoccupied with. Nowadays, we have a social demand as to what we should be doing and what does our main assignment consist in. And that they are precisely the ones shaping the narrative for the future. We need to get both sides involved: the civil society as well as state institutions. NGOs will never be able to be successful until and unless they reinforce the state-operated sector, as only this will ensure that a long-term strategy be in place. Any institution should be proactive in finding the funding and amplifying the voice of others.  Our common goal is to make sure that these ‘reexamination locations’ be as efficient as possible—like they do it in Germany, for instance. There is a decentralised memorial landscape in place here. Take, say, the city we visited: Heidelberg. It hosts a huge centre for research into the Holocaust of German Roma and Sinti. So it is not just Berlin that is a place of research but each and every small town where historical crimes took place. The task of our institutions is to work with senses. You are liable before the ones who come.

Photo: Ceremony of honouring the Holocaust victims. Photo: Office of the President

«It is crucially important for each subsequent generation to understand the price we paid and what we went through»

— Let us try and discuss the places of memory in our ongoing war. How, in your opinion, should memorials of contemporary Ukrainian heroes look like in Ukraine? How can we embed them into the urban environment and skyline of our cities?

— The fact that Heroes’ Lanes are set up within cemeteries is a portion of the common pain experienced by the entire Ukrainian society. This tragedy befell my own family, too. We come visit this Lane. Mum comes to see her son; I come to visit my brother. This is something that is with us here. This is the place to which we can bring our pain.

As far as the memorial, by and large, is concerned, we should wait for time to pass and for the understanding to come that will show us what will be its role. In order for to do that, we should carve into stone the name of each and every one of us who gave their life in this war to defend our freedom. So that each subsequent generation to understand the price we paid and what we went through.

Our team likes the concepts of military cemeteries in America. Arlington National Memorial is one of the largest and most well-known military cemeteries in the US. Over 400,000 people are buried in its 639 acres. This place of burial epitomises the respect paid to the military men and women, and their patriotism. Or take the 9/11 memorial. In Ukraine, this should be a common memorial wherein the name of every single man and women who died in this war should be inscribed. If it is going to be situated in Kyiv, then each and every Ukrainian family from anywhere in the country should be able to come to Kyiv and find the name of their father, their son. And then, their grandfather or their great-grandfather. And each new parliament or government must understand its responsibility before these people. Respect and gratitude are what they should feel. This is very much about the memorialisation that preserves the history of everyone.

«All of these regional and local archives will ultimately have to become a common topography of human memory. To do that, we should evolve»

— If we compare Jewish and Roma culture, we can come to two different juxtapositions: the Jewish culture is always about written documents whereas the Roma culture is mostly about the oral memory. How, in your opinion, can we archive the past of the Roma communities, to preserve it for the generations to come?

— We need to work a lot, creating records that have so far not been written down. That is, we should take any effort to preserve them: in books, in literature, in movies, in historical records. With each new generation, we are going to lose the oral history. Therein lies the problem. There is a famous French Catholic priest, Patrick Desbois, who travelled to Ukraine and wrote down stories of people who suffered from the crimes in the past century. Yet, one can imagine what memories does a survivor have. So the primary sources of information are of paramount importance. For instance, our diaries of war which we write down today, are important for the historians of the future generations. As far as Roma people are concerned, if they have got no written culture per se yet, it is still important to record, say, a song, to write down its history, who performed it etc. Next, you can compare it with archive records pertaining to a certain region, city, village, street, church, or local museum, and conduct a certain research into the topic.

This kind of work must take place in every region. In order for the landscape to be operable, each and every region must be aware of the crimes committed against its local population—like Holocaust, Holodomor, the deportation of Crimean Tatars and other events. All of these regional and local archives will ultimately have to become a common topography of human memory. To do that, we should evolve. Today, regional museums are quite successful—for instance, the History of Volyn Land. This is a nice example of how can a city understand its local history better, what the truth was, and who used to live here before us. That is, we should have a detalisation or a decentralisation of history.  If it only comes down from atop, in the form of orders, decrees, and instructions, the memory will be erased then. We should focus on the roots of what is ours, starting with the tiniest elements.  

Photo: Roza Tapanova (personal archive)

«Each of us should be aware of his or her roots. Next comes the advocacy of one’s roots, one’s traditions, and one’s culture»

— Let us discuss identities. You have Kazakh Tatar roots. For many years now, you have been working in the context of Jewish history and culture in Ukraine. What identity have you defined for yourself as your primary identity?

— First and foremost, the key thing is that I am Ukrainian. My brother’s tombstone says: «He was a Kazakh, yet a Ukrainian». By and large, each of us should be aware of his or her roots. Next comes the advocacy of one’s roots, one’s traditions, and one’s culture. The Ukrainian society has always been inter-denominational and inter-ethnic. Dividing people, on the other hand, usually results in evil and other bad consequences. Historically, various ethnicities have coexisted in Ukraine.

— Final question. Tell us, what is the place you would love to come back most?

— That would be Kherson—the place where I was born and raised. I often recall the street I used to live in. Dnipro. I would like to come back there when it is no longer hit with cluster bombs. To relish the beauty and the flavours from my childhood.